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Post by ryanbartlett on Aug 1, 2015 16:19:56 GMT -5
Good afternoon chaps. I've been noticing lately that the majority, the vast majority, of the commentary here on the forum is about the Sanitaria Springs stories. I don't blame you, I think each of them is completely wonderful and I've spent many happy hours reading and rereading them. I also know that many of you have read my serials, My Secret Identity and Summers End, on other sites before they came here so I understand why no one's said much about them either. But, there are a number of good serials on this site and they seem to go unnoticed. This isn't a complaint by any means, please don't think of it that way, it's more of an inquire. As I get ready to write my next serial, I want to put something out there that you guys want to read. What's on your minds? What are you interested in reading about? What topics or genre's would you like to see explored? I'm very curious to know your thoughts.
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Post by Lugnutz on Aug 1, 2015 17:34:04 GMT -5
Something with cars and explosions. Oh wait, that's me. You write what you want to. My influence won't help.
Something where the main character doesn't win? Eventually gains insight?
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Post by silentreader on Aug 1, 2015 22:17:19 GMT -5
Good question. I'll think about this and come back.
I've grown to care about the Sanitaria Springs characters so much more than I often do about fictional characters that I'd be happy to read lots more about those boys.
But maybe you'd like the creative freedom to write about lots of other characters, too?
It's odd, but if you had described your characters from My Secret Identity to me in advance, I might have told you I don't usually select fantasy stories... But I did start reading MSI (elsewhere, a few months ago) and I ended up liking it a lot. So I'd be interested in a sequel... but, again, I'm thinking you'd like to write something completely new?
I'll be back after I have thought a while.
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Post by ryanbartlett on Aug 1, 2015 22:29:38 GMT -5
Oh I'm still writing SS stuff, in fact, I'm so bored right now I may pay my friends in the Springs a visit and work on something tonight. I'm just curious what other kinds of things people might be interested in. Speaking of MSI, MSI II: Guardians of the Earth, has started taking shape in my head and it may very well be the next thing I work on. We'll see. Thanks for the input!
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Post by Lugnutz on Aug 2, 2015 6:33:07 GMT -5
As long as you don't get pigeon holed in SS stories.
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Post by ryanbartlett on Aug 2, 2015 10:56:32 GMT -5
Nah, as long as I rub the lotion on my skin not only do I not get the hose, BUT, Dave also lets me out of the basement to write other stuff. Someone, please call the police. LOL
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Post by JohnInOhio on Aug 2, 2015 11:47:17 GMT -5
Ryan, I really loved Summer's End. I'd like to see more things in that vein. I'm reading The Navigator and enjoying it (And resisting the temptation to go elsewhere and read faster.)
It's interesting that while I'm a great fan of science fiction (And to a lesser extent fantasy) I find I don't care much for gay themed sci-fi. Of course that may be because the really bad sci-fi I tried to read on Nifty. It mostly seemed like an excuse to write about sex. I really like stories. I want to know how characters feel and how decisions effect them. Having said that, right now I'm enjoying a new science fiction story by Mike Arram. And I enjoyed his fantasy stories. I'll admit that he sucked me in. The stories didn't start out as fantasy, but developed in that direction as they progressed. By then I was invested in the lives of the characters.
I guess I'm saying that anything you write that relies on character development will be great. It's one of the things I like about this site. There is a real effort by the authors here to develop characters and not so much to write sex scenes.
Keep up the good work!
John
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Post by ryanbartlett on Aug 2, 2015 16:33:54 GMT -5
Thanks John, I'm glad you liked Summers End. I agree with you, this site is great because the authors, all the authors, take the time to write stories and not whacking material. There are plenty of places you can find that if it's your thing but I appreciate Dave for making this site what it is, a place to read about people like us leading their lives without pulling their pants down every couple of pages. No one here writes bad porno. I'll also admit, and I'm sure some of the other authors would agree, writing sex scenes get's boring. You can only be so creative in describing insert tab A into slot B.
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Post by silentreader on Aug 2, 2015 22:09:09 GMT -5
I've been having trouble writing this, because as soon as I express myself I think of exceptions and contradict myself.
But I think I'd like to read about working class characters without extra money.
Except as soon as I write that I admit to myself that having a little extra cash for road trips, etc., livens up a story... and there are "poor" characters from Sanitaria Springs who were rescued from horrible situations by those with more money. And a story about characters mired in hopeless abject poverty doesn't sound like it would be pleasant to read. (Of course "pleasant to read" maybe shouldn't be important.)
Maybe what I'm thinking would make sense if I share where it developed. There is a set particularly long serial novels on another site about a group of characters whom I grew to care about as I read the novels. I like how they grow and develop as people and how they grow to handle their problems well... but when I went back to re-read those novels maybe five years after first reading them, I got to thinking how wealthy the two main characters and their families were, and how easily in the plot they were able to apply their wealth to help solve their problems in ways that "average" people couldn't do...
Wealth didn't solve all of their problems. By itself wealth didn't buy their happiness. And, indeed, the characters were very generous with their wealth. But I got to wondering how those same characters would have handled their problems if they didn't have the extra money....
I think part of the reason writing these comments has been hard for me is that I don't intend it to be criticism of any particular pieces here on this website or elsewhere. Characters having money to be able to do interesting things makes for more interesting stories, usually, I'll bet. (I liked the recent stories about trips to India and Maine!)
So, anyhow, those are some ideas I've been thinking about...
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Post by ryanbartlett on Aug 2, 2015 23:47:24 GMT -5
I can't speak for others but speaking for myself, you have to write what you know and I've never known abject poverty. I grew up in a middle class neighborhood full of middle class families. I attended school with middle class kids and my circle of friends was middle class. Most of my SS characters are based at least in part on people I knew. Sometimes it's just a physical trait or a personality quirk but these things are hidden within each of them. In my circle of friends there were some common threads, everyone was either an honors student or at least on the college track, their parents had decent jobs so there was disposable income for family trips, everyone got a car at 16 though all of them were used, noting too fancy or impractical, they played at least one sport or an instrument, things that were designed to make them appear well rounded on college applications because my generation was sold on the idea that college was the key to a successful future and that in order to get into a good school it wasn't enough to have great grades and test scores, you had to be well rounded. So, I write about the people I know about. I think we've seen a wide range of characters in the SS universe and in various situations. The Kirkwood's are the only ones who I would call flat out rich and in writing them I've tried to write them based on the wealthy people I've known in my life. People who had money but were generous and kind hearted who used their resources to help others. The rich people I have known are not like the ones we see on TV, the stupid spoiled whores like the Kardashians or the Hilton's. Those people, regardless of their money, are still white trash as far as I'm concerned. In writing these stories I try to approach them from the standpoint of making the characters normal, at least normal from my point of view. I like to show them as, despite being gay, undergoing the same trails and tribulations as other kids their age. Maybe that's another reason I don't write about people in poverty, I want to write something that gives people hope, not reminds them of the daily grind they face or the troubles that might be plaguing their own life. I know Sanitaria Springs has a bit of an escapist quality, at least for me, and that's ok. I'm happy with it being a place where readers can come and feel like they are visiting old friends. Sure, it's an idealistic community but is that really such a bad thing? Don't we all have a little too much reality in our lives?
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Post by JohnInOhio on Aug 3, 2015 0:40:42 GMT -5
re: characters without extra money.
I remember a time when money was in very short supply. We had just bought a house, I was going to grad school, we had just adopted our daughter, my wife had quit working to stay home with the new daughter and I had quit my part time job so I could take classes. I was certainly not living in abject poverty but money was very tight. There was very little "give" in the budget. When things went wrong, and the seemed to do so with remarkable frequency, it was a case of "robbing Peter to pay Paul." I used to joke that problems came in threes. There would be car trouble, house trouble and every trouble cost money. To top it all off, in the early 70's teachers were not a highly paid profession. At one point my cloths were falling appart and I bought five pair of pants at Montgomery Wards (Remember them?) I paid $5.00 a pair for them. They were shapeless knit, but... I wasn't naked.
I finished grad school, It make a big difference in my salary, I started working part time again, and rejoined the middle class. I don't regret any of that, but I wouldn't want to do it again. I have a (little) bit of disposable income and a new great granddaughter. I still live in that house I bought back then. I'm an old fart now, and I figure my next move will be to a much smaller plot.
So... That's all to say that I understand Ryan's thinking. My parents raised me to be middle class, and I've stubbornly held onto that my whole life. On the other hand, my family was from eastern Kentucky. I saw poverty at first hand, and I wanted nothing to do with it. I appreciate the SS stories. The people in those stories seem a lot like me. Keep writing everyone, and I'll keep reading!
I don't think I tell the authors here how much I appreciate them nearly often enough. Let this help make up for it. Yea Gang!
John
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Post by ryanbartlett on Aug 3, 2015 2:14:38 GMT -5
I just want to clarify my remarks, I wasn't being critical of Silentreader's comments. I just felt like he gave me an opportunity to explain my rationale for writing the characters the way I write them. I appreciate his, everyone's, input.
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Post by Dabeagle on Aug 3, 2015 7:34:48 GMT -5
While I do agree with Ryan, to a degree, that we write what we know - at the same time, we write about kids with super powers, special ops training and all sorts of other things that we imagine or research. I don't think it's beyond ourselves to wonder what it feels like when that bill comes due and we don't have the bucks, but in SS it hasn't been an issue. That's not to say it won't at some point.
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Post by Lugnutz on Aug 3, 2015 8:58:12 GMT -5
I don't know what it's like to have extra money. So having none to spare reflects in my writing. Was on this side of welfare my whole young life. Not homeless, but darned close to it.
I have a couple stories in the works that are tied together. Should be interesting.
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Post by PaulR5 on Aug 3, 2015 9:21:30 GMT -5
I can't speak for others but speaking for myself, you have to write what you know and I've never known abject poverty. I grew up in a middle class neighborhood full of middle class families. I attended school with middle class kids and my circle of friends was middle class. Most of my SS characters are based at least in part on people I knew. Sometimes it's just a physical trait or a personality quirk but these things are hidden within each of them. In my circle of friends there were some common threads, everyone was either an honors student or at least on the college track, their parents had decent jobs so there was disposable income for family trips, everyone got a car at 16 though all of them were used, noting too fancy or impractical, they played at least one sport or an instrument, things that were designed to make them appear well rounded on college applications because my generation was sold on the idea that college was the key to a successful future and that in order to get into a good school it wasn't enough to have great grades and test scores, you had to be well rounded. So, I write about the people I know about. I think we've seen a wide range of characters in the SS universe and in various situations. The Kirkwood's are the only ones who I would call flat out rich and in writing them I've tried to write them based on the wealthy people I've known in my life. People who had money but were generous and kind hearted who used their resources to help others. The rich people I have known are not like the ones we see on TV, the stupid spoiled whores like the Kardashians or the Hilton's. Those people, regardless of their money, are still white trash as far as I'm concerned. In writing these stories I try to approach them from the standpoint of making the characters normal, at least normal from my point of view. I like to show them as, despite being gay, undergoing the same trails and tribulations as other kids their age. Maybe that's another reason I don't write about people in poverty, I want to write something that gives people hope, not reminds them of the daily grind they face or the troubles that might be plaguing their own life. I know Sanitaria Springs has a bit of an escapist quality, at least for me, and that's ok. I'm happy with it being a place where readers can come and feel like they are visiting old friends. Sure, it's an idealistic community but is that really such a bad thing? Don't we all have a little too much reality in our lives? Ryan, and JohnInOhio, and Silentreader, all the points you make are relevant. I have grown to love the SS characters more than most, partly because of the stories from so many different angles. The Navigator is somewhat like that. The viewpoint/snapshot of story switches to Silas for two chapters, then every third chapter to Brady and the band. Another story which maintains continuity but has switching viewpoints is called Timothy's Terrible Prompt Stories at: www.gayauthors.org/story/timothy-m/timothysterriblepromptstories (By the way, Timothy, if you ever read this, your TITLE is terrible, but the story is quite good!) as the viewpoint switches from Nelson to mostly Eric to Nelson with once in a great while a smattering of viewpoints from Rob's version of straightness and caring cluelessness about what it means to be gay. I think the closest to abject poverty any of the current SS characters has been would be Asher. Such poverty can impact people a lot. My spouse grew up in abject poverty from about age 11 until 19. I grew up either upper lower class income-wise, or lower middle-class, depending on how you look at it. One's growing up income level has great influence on one's view of the world. I'd like to see much more Flash Fiction-- the VERY very short stories such as School Shopping by Dabeagle ─ dabeagle.com/stories/dabeagle/flash/school_shopping.html or Prom Night by Merkin ─ www.codeysworld.com/merkin/short-stories/prom-night.html ─ because the story development in a story of roughly 500 - 2000 words has to be different than story development of 5000 words or more. And back to the subject of income, Griffin's parents seem pretty well off, also. One's child does not usually get a Prius for a first car....
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