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Post by silentreader on Nov 8, 2015 19:57:36 GMT -5
Bravo! I already cared about the main characters from their appearances in other stories, so I could go right to appreciating the tension and the foreshadowing... lots of that in this story! And what complex people and complex situations... minor characters whom I just assumed were pretty much "all bad" turned out to be more complicated than I suspected. (Of course, people in real life are often that way, too, aren't they, when we look more deeply?)
Thank you so very much, David, for giving us another Sanitaria Springs story. I truly treasure these glimpses into a life I probably won't ever get to experience directly. Thank you.
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Post by PaulR5 on Nov 9, 2015 4:54:03 GMT -5
But other questions needs to be answered in a future story--
Did Robin and Lucian end up in Auto Shop or back in Government?
Is Van II becoming an Auto Shop painting project?
Will Lucien have to wear sunglasses much of daylight hours now until his eyes finish healing?
Will Austin and Derek take over temporarily in helping Nik with his English homework and ESL classes?
At one time, our local school district was having eleven different ESL classes for students, ranging from Russian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, and Italian, to German, Japanese, and four others I do not remember.
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Post by Dabeagle on Nov 9, 2015 21:42:34 GMT -5
I'm very glad you two liked it. I toyed with taking the easy way out and letting Claire go, however Ryan never liked it if I went all out negative on religion as it was a part of his life. It kept him in the closet, or was one of the reasons why, but he modeled the Kirkwoods on an idealized version of what he'd have liked to have had and this is why it's an important part of their life - or a part, at any rate. Keeping with that, one has to hope that people can be redeemed from the harmful effects of any thought process, and I thought Claire was ripe for some enlightenment.
As to Paul's questions - I think Lucien would talk Robin in to keeping the Auto Shop. Probably use some line about it looking good for his being well rounded on a college app. I don't think I recall the second bus being in need of a paint job. If you're referring to the one in the picture, that was a burn victim. I think it's safe to say Lucien will have to wear some eye protection for a time. I'm not sure about the next one, but I think it'll be a group effort.
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Post by jnwrx1 on Nov 13, 2015 0:33:53 GMT -5
Still having trouble coming to a resolution on this one. Not quite sure how to react, but... How come you keep picking on Lucien?  |
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Post by Dabeagle on Nov 13, 2015 7:04:13 GMT -5
This was intended to show Lucien continuing to grow up and mature. He didn't doubt the people he needed would do what they could. He didn't stumble when he called out to his mother, Mrs. Kutsenko, when he got hurt. Also, I wanted to showcase some of Robin's more playful, humerus side as I did in Family Camp. This was also an opportunity to bring Claire into the mix - and some readers wondered that she hadn't spoken a word in The Perils of Lucien.
So, in some ways, it was a tying up of loose ends.
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Post by PaulR5 on Nov 15, 2015 17:06:42 GMT -5
Dave, I think Lucien has grown much since the first stories in which he appeared. All of us can achieve more growth, and some people grow and grow, while others don't.
Eileen and Claire show some of the excess which religion sometimes goes to. Claire, at this point, is possibly more flexible than Eileen in her thinking, because Claire (as far as I know at this point), is not yet showing any sign of mental illness.
Many people have no concept of what people who are mentally ill go through, or what those close to them can go through. Four relatives on my spouse's side of the family have or had mental illnesses, (including my spouse, who has three mental illnesses, at least) and my heart goes out to all on either side of that equation.
Have Lucien and Robin discussed the possibility that Lucien might become mentally ill, since his mother did? Medication can help, but is not perfect.
And I look forward to new adventures with the new bus---
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Post by Lugnutz on Nov 15, 2015 17:36:56 GMT -5
I really like this one. Lu has matured a lot. But, he would complain as much as I would if my pride and joy was going up in flames.
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Post by Dabeagle on Nov 15, 2015 19:27:05 GMT -5
Have Lucien and Robin discussed the possibility that Lucien might become mentally ill, since his mother did? Medication can help, but is not perfect. Lucien did discuss it with Robin in Perils of Lucien - with his mother being Schizophrenic, he has a ten percent chance. If his father was too, he has a bout a 60 percent chance. |
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Post by jnwrx1 on Nov 15, 2015 20:39:10 GMT -5
This was intended to show Lucien continuing to grow up and mature. He didn't doubt the people he needed would do what they could. He didn't stumble when he called out to his mother, Mrs. Kutsenko, when he got hurt. Also, I wanted to showcase some of Robin's more playful, humerus side as I did in Family Camp. This was also an opportunity to bring Claire into the mix - and some readers wondered that she hadn't spoken a word in The Perils of Lucien. So, in some ways, it was a tying up of loose ends.
I'm pretty sure that was something that really was resolved a long while ago, anyway. We never really saw him having any trouble trusting his adoptive parents, or at least it wasn't portrayed, except for way back in 'Cowboy Up'. It was usually always more the trouble he was having feeling comfortable reaching out to his friends (the whole found family) instead of trying to go it alone, every time.
I was actually getting really anxious in the hospital scene: with all the foreshadowing, I couldn't figure out exactly how far you would carry the rising conflict, and I was almost sure you were going to leave Lucien permanently blind. That would have sure been a whole new character building challenge for him, leaving him almost totally reliant on everyone else, especially Robin. That might not have been as bad as it might sound because I'm sure Robin would be more than completely committed to helping him deal with a lifelong disability. I think Paul hit it right on the head, when he related how devastating mental illness can be for anyone, even the caregivers.
With that in mind, I do think that the notion of mental illness might be a little bit overemphasized in the negative aspect. It's not something to be afraid of, especially with proper treatment and support, and Lucien will definitely always have that, all his life. He has Robin to support him, and his whole family, and Robin has already stated he's not afraid of anything that could happen. I also wouldn't put too much emphasis on the idea that mental illness would be responsible for Eileen's fanatical bent. That's not how schizophrenia works, and I've had it explained to me by people who actually had it.
Eileen is just choosing to hold onto a negative opinion, and letting that guide her thinking to the extreme and, in a sense, Lucien is doing the same thing because he has formed a concrete, unshakable opinion of what he thinks is generating the thoughts and actions she shows towards him, when there could be much more behind it than what he suspects. Opinions and perspectives are complicated concepts, and it is never simply black and white, even though Lucien would like to act towards Eileen as if she is completely lacking any comprehension of who he is, and Claire has also told him that Eileen is actually struggling with her thinking, so she's not completely one single shade of black to his white.
I did appreciate the fact that you still allowed Robin to remain committed to religion, and left it as a genuine part of him that helps him be the open and loving person he is. It's good that Ryan created him that way, because it probably really was a needed element to balance out the much more extreme stereotypes that religion can sometimes bring across, when it is misused by those bent on fanatical mindsets, which often come out in fiction. Even Claire and her boyfriend, and his family have had their eyes opened about the devastation caused by religion being abused, and they should also be considered victims in this, even though we know our sympathies should go to Lucien and Robin, and the found family, first.
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Post by Dabeagle on Nov 15, 2015 21:32:32 GMT -5
First, let me say I'm glad this story is getting some discussion. I've had one email and was feeling pretty bummed out. To jnwrz1's post - Lucien has always shown levels of insecurity, thus why I said I wanted to show his continued growth in that area. Like most folks, he has his good days/moments and his bad ones and this was just a measure of how far forward he's gone. Mental illness, and Schizophrenia, can be quite terrifying for all involved. We've cared for kids whose parents were fine and thought they were fine and went off their meds. My ex-wife struggled with depression, among other things, being hospitalized a few times. I, myself, have had some struggles with depression. I don't think that mental illness can really be put into a positive light. I do agree that her mental illness doesn't equate to her religious zeal - however: frequently people who were addicted to a drug will replace it with religion. Prison converts and 12 step programs that require you to commit to a higher power, etc. I have never explored where she gets her religion from - some people were just raised with it and that's my idea with her. As to Robin's religion, I do note that there are many people who are religious and who do not espouse these sorts of views - again, however, the ones screaming loudest for people like me to clapped in irons, sent to islands until we die out or outright killed all come from this idea of religion. Personally I'm an atheist and I have zero use for religion. In many ways I do view religious fervor - indeed some of the underpinnings of many major religions - to sound like a diagnosable, treatable medical/mental condition. However, Ryan was a Methodist and he created Robin to be how he is. I have further shaped and brought Robin to be who he is now - you'll note that, besides his origin story in Preacher's Kid, Ryan n ever wrote from Robin's perspective, nor Lucien's. For that reason - my deep respect to my writing partner - I will not alter fundamental portions of a character. Could he walk away from it years down the road? Sure. Will we ever see that? Doubtful. Like many people, Ryan struggled with his faith in ways that Robin does, as well. While it's not the way I'd have made him, it's a valid storyline and worth telling. Much as Cynus's Return with Honor it explores concepts I'd not normally get into. For me, personally, Mormonism is one of the more batshit religions out there - but he brought the story home in a relevant, real and altogether page turning way. I'm glad you appreciate those aspects of Robin and the story. Please, rest assured, I don't normally consider making large changes to the basic makeup of a character unless it's vital. With my recent difficulties writing, I don't anticipate we'd see anything where the Kirkwood's would experience a crisis of faith. |
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Post by Steve T. on Nov 15, 2015 23:33:23 GMT -5
Thanks for another great SS story. I'm never disappointed when I see something posted from there.
I actually read this story the evening that it was posted, but have struggled with how to reply, kind of how jnwrx1 posted earlier in the thread. I needed to think about it for awhile.
You were a lot kinder with your treatment of the religion theme than I think I could be. I understand your hesitance to go ultra negative due to Ryan's beliefs, and, honestly, I admire your restraint. I'm certain that I couldn't do it.
Anyway...I'm glad that Lucien didn't suffer any permanent problems from his run-in with the religi-nuts.
I still don't think I've got this story completely sorted in my head, but I wanted to at least tell you how much I liked it. Thanks again!
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Post by PaulR5 on Dec 7, 2015 0:44:27 GMT -5
It's a great story. "The balancing act of life is sometimes like juggling while standing on a rising and falling teeter-totter in a wind gusting at 30+ miles per hour." ─ Anonymous
That's some of what Lucien ran into here with Bus Boys. Unfortunately, life doesn't always warn us of impending attacks, intentions, or upsets.
Any chance in a future story Griff might be actually be mentioned as having worked on (or working on) Lu's new bus? In looking at the end of Bus Boys, it didn't say what color Lucien's new bus is...
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Post by Dabeagle on Dec 7, 2015 6:23:24 GMT -5
I can't say, beyond what's written, what may come to pass in SS.
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