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Post by Cynus on Feb 17, 2016 15:09:26 GMT -5
All right, it's time for me to be just a little bit selfish... I'm starting my own discussion thread for this story, hoping that at least some of you are reading it and can tell me what you think. I only know of a few people who are diligently reading it, elsewhere, and I really haven't seen the level of comments I would have hoped to see. Whether you like it or hate it, I'd like to hear from you. What do you think about this story? Is it keeping your interest? Is there anything you don't like? My boys are feeling like they're rather insignificant at the moment, and they need the kind of validation that teenagers crave. Please don't let them down. Thank you in advance for your discussion and constructive feedback.
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Post by Dabeagle on Feb 17, 2016 15:22:35 GMT -5
I'd like to chime in because I've had the pleasure of reading the whole thing. As I said in my review of Return With Honor, Cynus takes subjects I'm not overly interested in (like Mormonism, like the Yakuza) and manages to make them interesting and create compelling, distinctive characters. I understand folks that don't want to read week to week but would rather digest it all at once. If you're the kind who reads a couple chapters and wants to wait before you do more, I get that, too. If you're reading it at GA, AD or some other site, that makes sense too.
What would make this easier for you to read, if anything? More importantly, how do you think things are shaping up and where they may go?
Also, Dante rules. That is all.
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Post by Cynus on Feb 17, 2016 15:46:10 GMT -5
What would make this easier for you to read, if anything? More importantly, how do you think things are shaping up and where they may go? Also, Dante rules. That is all. Dante does rule. He's my favorite character, too, though it took me until Chapter 17 to realize it. I saved this question from your post, Dave, because I think the first one bears importance to what we've been discussing recently, and I think opening it up to the readers would be a good thing. (I should perhaps post this part in the General board, but we'll see what attention it garners here) As a writer, I'm only as prolific as the motivation I have to write. What helps give me that motivation is knowing that readers are reading my work. I'm less concerned with whether or not they like it, as I don't write for people to like it (Been there, done that, hated every part of it), but I do write for people to understand what I write. Nearly every story I ever post is already complete, and nothing you say to me will stop a story from being completed due to that fact. Don't think that if you have negative feedback that it will crush me as a writer and stop a story from being finished. I only allow my editors and betas to crush stories, and they have in the past and I've been grateful to them for it. Not all ideas are worth exploring to fruition. Trust that I'm not fragile. I've survived worse than your negative feedback, and I will again. Constructive criticism helps me improve and allows me to provide you with higher quality work. Letting me know that you're reading a story motivates me to continue to produce. Good comments telling me you're liking it or even better what you liked will motivate me even more. All I want, as a writer, is to know that my art is being experienced, and I'm fairly certain that most of us feel that way. And this is why I feel Dave's question is so important. What can we do, as artists, to generate that discussion? What can we do to help spur that along, and create a positive environment in which this discussion can take place? Will releasing a story more quickly help? Would you rather we post stories all at once? The logic behind releasing a chapter every week is so you'll keep coming back for it, that there will be a constant stream of new material. The worry behind releasing a story all at once is what will happen in the interim while you wait for new stories. Will you be here, discussing what has already been released, or will you only check back when new stories post? These questions are the ones I worry about as a creator, and hope you, the reader, will be able to help us understand your perspective. I know Dave would love to know how to create an atmosphere where both writer and reader are happy with the way things work. I, too, would like to see that. What are your thoughts?
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Post by Lugnutz on Feb 17, 2016 21:18:45 GMT -5
The first few chapters had me thinking it would go one way, but it went another way. I like it and I have no idea where it's going.
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Post by PaulR5 on Feb 18, 2016 1:31:52 GMT -5
What would make this easier for you to read, if anything? More importantly, how do you think things are shaping up and where they may go? Also, Dante rules. That is all. Dante does rule. He's my favorite character, too, though it took me until Chapter 17 to realize it. I saved this question from your post, Dave, because I think the first one bears importance to what we've been discussing recently, and I think opening it up to the readers would be a good thing. (I should perhaps post this part in the General board, but we'll see what attention it garners here) As a writer, I'm only as prolific as the motivation I have to write. What helps give me that motivation is knowing that readers are reading my work. I'm less concerned with whether or not they like it, as I don't write for people to like it (Been there, done that, hated every part of it), but I do write for people to understand what I write. Nearly every story I ever post is already complete, and nothing you say to me will stop a story from being completed due to that fact. Don't think that if you have negative feedback that it will crush me as a writer and stop a story from being finished. I only allow my editors and betas to crush stories, and they have in the past and I've been grateful to them for it. Not all ideas are worth exploring to fruition. Trust that I'm not fragile. I've survived worse than your negative feedback, and I will again. Constructive criticism helps me improve and allows me to provide you with higher quality work. Letting me know that you're reading a story motivates me to continue to produce. Good comments telling me you're liking it or even better what you liked will motivate me even more. All I want, as a writer, is to know that my art is being experienced, and I'm fairly certain that most of us feel that way. And this is why I feel Dave's question is so important. What can we do, as artists, to generate that discussion? What can we do to help spur that along, and create a positive environment in which this discussion can take place? Will releasing a story more quickly help? Would you rather we post stories all at once? The logic behind releasing a chapter every week is so you'll keep coming back for it, that there will be a constant stream of new material. The worry behind releasing a story all at once is what will happen in the interim while you wait for new stories. Will you be here, discussing what has already been released, or will you only check back when new stories post? These questions are the ones I worry about as a creator, and hope you, the reader, will be able to help us understand your perspective. I know Dave would love to know how to create an atmosphere where both writer and reader are happy with the way things work. I, too, would like to see that. What are your thoughts? In my case, I could use a less busy life. I know, Samuel, you can't do that for me. In a few days things will slow, then I will somewhat catch up. I have a lot of reading on other boards, to catch up on. Right now, I am barely keeping up with my favorite authors such as you and Dave, Gee, Ryan's last novel, James Savik, Timothy M over on GA, and David Lee on Nifty. Other authors have to wait. Good job on "Cup" and the others, Samuel. I will have more to say on that in a few days.
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Post by Cynus on Feb 18, 2016 19:48:06 GMT -5
Dante does rule. He's my favorite character, too, though it took me until Chapter 17 to realize it. I saved this question from your post, Dave, because I think the first one bears importance to what we've been discussing recently, and I think opening it up to the readers would be a good thing. (I should perhaps post this part in the General board, but we'll see what attention it garners here) As a writer, I'm only as prolific as the motivation I have to write. What helps give me that motivation is knowing that readers are reading my work. I'm less concerned with whether or not they like it, as I don't write for people to like it (Been there, done that, hated every part of it), but I do write for people to understand what I write. Nearly every story I ever post is already complete, and nothing you say to me will stop a story from being completed due to that fact. Don't think that if you have negative feedback that it will crush me as a writer and stop a story from being finished. I only allow my editors and betas to crush stories, and they have in the past and I've been grateful to them for it. Not all ideas are worth exploring to fruition. Trust that I'm not fragile. I've survived worse than your negative feedback, and I will again. Constructive criticism helps me improve and allows me to provide you with higher quality work. Letting me know that you're reading a story motivates me to continue to produce. Good comments telling me you're liking it or even better what you liked will motivate me even more. All I want, as a writer, is to know that my art is being experienced, and I'm fairly certain that most of us feel that way. And this is why I feel Dave's question is so important. What can we do, as artists, to generate that discussion? What can we do to help spur that along, and create a positive environment in which this discussion can take place? Will releasing a story more quickly help? Would you rather we post stories all at once? The logic behind releasing a chapter every week is so you'll keep coming back for it, that there will be a constant stream of new material. The worry behind releasing a story all at once is what will happen in the interim while you wait for new stories. Will you be here, discussing what has already been released, or will you only check back when new stories post? These questions are the ones I worry about as a creator, and hope you, the reader, will be able to help us understand your perspective. I know Dave would love to know how to create an atmosphere where both writer and reader are happy with the way things work. I, too, would like to see that. What are your thoughts? In my case, I could use a less busy life. I know, Samuel, you can't do that for me. In a few days things will slow, then I will somewhat catch up. I have a lot of reading on other boards, to catch up on. Right now, I am barely keeping up with my favorite authors such as you and Dave, Gee, Ryan's last novel, James Savik, Timothy M over on GA, and David Lee on Nifty. Other authors have to wait. Good job on "Cup" and the others, Samuel. I will have more to say on that in a few days. Thanks for weighing in, Paul. You have done your fair share of letting me know what you think, and I appreciate your contributions to the discussions, as I appreciate everyone who takes the time to comment. Is there anything we can do on our end to make it easier for you, though? I would like to help you out, as you've helped me.
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Post by Dabeagle on Feb 18, 2016 22:32:46 GMT -5
Is serialization an issue? Is the format that stories are presented on here an issue? Are you looking at this through a mobile device or through a computer screen?
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Post by PaulR5 on Feb 19, 2016 0:13:56 GMT -5
I love the serials you run, and the format. The issue is that I have been unusually busy in my personal life. It will get better toward the middle of next week, when some co-workers who have been out of town return.
Dave and Samuel, you and other writers and editors are doing a fantastic job. The problems are entirely at my end, and it will get better as soon as next week. This has been one of the busiest winters I've ever had. That's no person's fault, it just is.
But thanks for the concern, I do appreciate it.
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Post by PaulR5 on Feb 19, 2016 0:15:03 GMT -5
Oh, and I use both a smartphone and a computer PC.
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Post by Dabeagle on Feb 19, 2016 10:36:58 GMT -5
I's sorry, Paulr5, I didn't mean you specifically - I was asking in general. I certainly understand about life getting in the way of leisure activities!
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pedro
Young Hound
Posts: 78
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Post by pedro on Feb 21, 2016 2:46:50 GMT -5
Cynus, don't be disheartened, Cup is excellent. But we, the readers, are only up to ch7 and you have mentioned it goes to at least 17. So we are just getting warmed up, thinking about possible scenarios.. I have an idea (probably wrong) where I think the story will end up, but I have no idea what collateral damage etc will be inflicted on the way.
This thread seems to have two other themes:
a) Should readers express their appreciation or otherwise of stories and if so how, and should authors expect feedback?
As a reader, I am wary of posting comments that are of the 'me too' or 'pat on the head' type. I prefer to have something to say provided that doesn't become a spoiler. I might comment on a short story if it strikes a particular chord in me and, of course, it is finished in one hit. With a longer story I might write to the author direct to say I am still following it, or if something catches my eye, but I probably wouldn't until the end. I wouldn't read a printed book and send a message to the author after every chapter. There are however those who say I don't comment because I am intellectually lazy, they might be right.
As an author, yes I like feedback, it lets me know I am doing something right (or wrong) and the reader thought it worth the effort to write. But if I don't get comments back I would still like to know I am being read. That is where traffic data from hosting sites is nice to have available. In physically printed media this would be reflected in sales. Conflicting positions? Yup! That's me.
b) Does the frequency of posting affect the readers interest or should stories be posted in one go? I suspect this argument is almost as old as fiction publishing in print. After all Dickens had his work published in a weekly(?) magazine.
As an occasional author I can't really comment as I have no desire as yet to tackle a novel and my productivity is such that only one piece is every nearing completion at any one time. But if I were to submit a bunch of stories at once, I would prefer them to be released separately, maybe fortnightly.
As reader I have to weigh the suspense or frustration of waiting for the next instalment against my propensity for trying to read complete works in one session, with consequent eye strain, lack of sleep etc.. As Paulr5 says, other things going on in the readers life also have to be factored in. Instalments also require my memory to retain where the story had got to last time. If I am following several stories at once, this can get a bit confusing. For me I guess the optimal posting period for reader/ writer for instalments would be around 5 days, which doesn't fit our seven day cycle well. However, apart from the story itself, possibly the most important things about instalments are predictability of posting and the knowledge that the story is complete (or will definitely be completed). Readers do not want to invest in stories that run into the sand.
I do not want to start a discussion about why a reader will choose to read some authors or stories but not others. But I will comment, that on one site I follow, they try to post instalments from six or seven stories two or three times a week. I tend to follow only one or two. Another site I drop in on seems to have resolved into two or three long running saga, none of which appeal, certainly not enough to do the catch up reading required.
So what am I currently reading: across six sites I regularly visit: Four instalment works, two of which are slightly erratic in posting, and a fifth which seems to have stalled. (At least one of these stories is on more than one site, and three sites I only visit for one author each.) One collection : Sanitaria Springs of course Short stories : as they are posted on three of the six sites, unless I really don't like the author.
I know I am missing some goodies, but, hey, the old memory can only handle so many stories at once.
For what it is worth, I do most of my reading on an iPad because it is portable.
Dabeagle, I hope this helps and keep up the good work.
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Post by Dabeagle on Feb 21, 2016 10:16:29 GMT -5
That's great feedback, Pedro, and thank you for taking the time to put it all down! The reason I ask about portable devices is because I wonder how things look to you, the person navigating the site or reading. My site analytic tells me nothing about which browsers are hitting the site and the company says it's due to privacy settings. I, sarcastically, asked if that means every single machine hitting my site has privacy setting enabled as I know mine doesn't. They stick to the party line and so I don't know what sorts of OSs are hitting and if I should be trying to make technical adjustments that allow it to be read and loaded better.
I think you and I are aligned from a reader/writer perspective on posting so I understand the dual nature of the reasoning. Thanks for posting your opinion!
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Post by PaulR5 on Feb 22, 2016 4:04:12 GMT -5
b) Does the frequency of posting affect the readers interest or should stories be posted in one go? I suspect this argument is almost as old as fiction publishing in print. After all Dickens had his work published in a weekly(?) magazine. As an occasional author I can't really comment as I have no desire as yet to tackle a novel and my productivity is such that only one piece is every nearing completion at any one time. But if I were to submit a bunch of stories at once, I would prefer them to be released separately, maybe fortnightly. As reader I have to weigh the suspense or frustration of waiting for the next instalment against my propensity for trying to read complete works in one session, with consequent eye strain, lack of sleep etc.. As Paulr5 says, other things going on in the readers life also have to be factored in. Instalments also require my memory to retain where the story had got to last time. If I am following several stories at once, this can get a bit confusing. For me I guess the optimal posting period for reader/ writer for instalments would be around 5 days, which doesn't fit our seven day cycle well. However, apart from the story itself, possibly the most important things about instalments are predictability of posting and the knowledge that the story is complete (or will definitely be completed). Readers do not want to invest in stories that run into the sand. I do not want to start a discussion about why a reader will choose to read some authors or stories but not others. But I will comment, that on one site I follow, they try to post instalments from six or seven stories two or three times a week. I tend to follow only one or two. Another site I drop in on seems to have resolved into two or three long running saga, none of which appeal, certainly not enough to do the catch up reading required. So what am I currently reading: across six sites I regularly visit: Four instalment works, two of which are slightly erratic in posting, and a fifth which seems to have stalled. (At least one of these stories is on more than one site, and three sites I only visit for one author each.) One collection : Sanitaria Springs of course Short stories : as they are posted on three of the six sites, unless I really don't like the author. I know I am missing some goodies, but, hey, the old memory can only handle so many stories at once. For what it is worth, I do most of my reading on an iPad because it is portable. Dabeagle, I hope this helps and keep up the good work. Pedro, I see your points and like them. I guess I have one advantage over many people, in that I have a near photographic memory-- BUT only for the things that interest me. There about 25 stories I can keep in my head at one time without re-reading for a refresher, unless it has been over a year since the last chapter. (One story had almost eight years before the last chapter was posted. One other I am waiting on has seven years since the last post, and I hope the author has not abandoned it. He told me that he had written the last chapter first, so he knows where he is going...) Sometimes it takes a while for me to phrase comments so that they might make sense to someone other than me. By the time I might comment on some stories or chapters, someone else has already said what I wanted to say. I read on a PC and love it. I read on a smartphone also, and I love that as well. I prefer the PC, as it has a bigger data allowance (I can view 350 gigabytes before the server starts slowing me down. Then I can switch to a secondary service and get another 75 gigabytes.) Dave, this site does well on both of my devices. Some sites, however, are terrible on my phone This one, IOMfAtS, and GA probably do the best on my phone. Thanks, Dave, for the good work on making this site easy to use.
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pedro
Young Hound
Posts: 78
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Post by pedro on Feb 25, 2016 15:13:30 GMT -5
Now back to our story!
Chapter 8
I said before that I had an idea (probably wrong) of where I think this might go, but that I had no idea what collateral damage would happen on the way. It looks with chapter 8 as if we are about to find out some of it.
When is chapter 9 due? A whole week? Can I last that long?
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Post by Dabeagle on Feb 25, 2016 17:51:49 GMT -5
He won't let me post it all, blame Cynus for your pain!
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