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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 20, 2016 16:42:02 GMT -5
You know, reader, I'm a reasonably busy guy. I have a full time job, husband and all the bills that go with a home and a life. I have two kids full time with more than the average kids share of issues. I have a third child on weekend visits that sometimes takes me two hours to bring him back and forth who will move in soon, full time. Three dogs, who are social creatures and need their time, as well.
If I, say, get into anything outside that like...a video game, book series or what have you, I have less time for writing. I know this isn't brain surgery, but I want to put that out there.
My site has always been free of charge. Through the boom early years when I posted updates once a week to more than one story line like clockwork to the famine years where I couldn't string words together, it has always been free. The coin I asked, begged, bargained and cajoled you, reader, for was your thoughts.
I have no other metric to know how a story was received, if it was as good on your screen as it felt putting it together or if it was a dumpster fire with a few semicolons. In that respect, reader, as a group you're in default.
I know people are busy, too. Some of you are probably busier than I am. But, as the title says, this is a numbers game so let me share a few with you.
On 9/11 I released the Sanitaria Springs story Love and Loss. Now, given it was the anniversary of a big event, a national tragedy, there could be some give here, right? A little leeway. Those numbers, though, are: Page Hits are 333. Email responses: 3. 1 message board post with response. Out of 333 readers, excepting duplicates for reading more than once or having to close the window and come back to it, out of that raw number 329 people read it and had squat to say. I'm not sure what that works out to as a percent, but it seems fucking lopsided. Was the story bad? Was it bland enough that it was worth reading but not worth the effort to comment? Even as a guest on the MB?
On 9/18 I released the Sanitaria Springs story The Journey. I did so with a little joke because I wonder, sometimes, if folks are tired of Lucien and Robin who are my favorite guys. In the two days since it was released the numbers are: 170 page hits. 1 MB post that only makes sense if you read the story. 2 email responses. 167 people read it and left.
I wish I could fire you, dear reader. I wish there were a way to find readers who would honor, at least sometimes, the idea that says I did my job. I created and placed it publicly for you to enjoy and all I ask in return is that you tell me what you thought. Instead, maybe because it's free so has no value to you, you take. And take. And take and don't give shit back.
I have three SS stories left to post and I accepted the challenge to write in my friend Cynus's Fearless universe. Once that's done, I have no further plans to indulge you, reader.
I know this won't change you. You'll go elsewhere and work that cost me hours and plenty of invested emotions and late nights and trying to find just the right word or phrase to make it resonate will be about as important to you as your last oil change.
The numbers don't lie. You aren't keeping up your end.
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bobby
Young Hound
Posts: 92
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Post by bobby on Sept 20, 2016 17:32:42 GMT -5
Dave... I thoroughly enjoy everything you and the others take the time to write & post for the enjoyment of others like me who don't have the talent to write. I could offer up numerous excuses as to why i haven't commented or emailed you letting you and others know how much i enjoy the stories, but plain & simple, i guess i'm lazy.
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Post by PaulR5 on Sept 20, 2016 21:24:18 GMT -5
Well, I've read 'em, enjoyed 'em, and even quoted from Signing Day and The Journey on my Facebook page. Hopefully, Dave, that counts. I have found something worth saving and quoting in most SS stories, though some are harder to quote so the casual reader has a little idea of what is going on.
But I am surprised there are not more Message Board (MB) comments on the stories. It is so much easier to comment on this board than many boards.
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Post by paul on Sept 20, 2016 22:00:55 GMT -5
I hope very much that you keep writing.
I was going to say that were I to compile a list of my favorite online gay fiction, many of your stories would be in my Top Ten list. Then, out of curiosity, I decided to list those works of yours that I have found myself reading not only multiple times but feel sure I'll be doing so again, with every expectation that I'll get just as much enjoyment from them. There aren't that many stories by other authors that fulfill that criterion, so there's a very good chance that my Top Ten list would consist mostly, if not wholly, of things by you.
It's when a story, either by you or other authors, gives me that kind of pleasure that I feel like expressing my appreciation, and have done so here and elsewhere. But let's face it, we all have issues of personal taste and preference, and I'll be the first to admit that mine can be rather narrow - and this applies in general to books, music, TV, movies and all sorts of other things. So when I find something just doesn't happen to be my personal cup of tea, I don't see any value to anyone in merely reporting that or going into the reasons why.
On the other hand, my Top Fourteen list might give some indication of what goes into brewing my own perfect cup of Dabeagle tea, so therefore, in no particular order:
Breaking Masks The Quantum The Tull Unification Long Day In Dog We Trust Su Cuy'gar The Meaning of Living A Matter of Time Boy, Bus and Key Things We Lost Sanitaria Springs Don't Ask Alec Meet the Parents Interference
Thanks for many hours of happy reading, and I look forward to many more.
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Post by JohnInOhio on Sept 20, 2016 22:31:09 GMT -5
I agree, The number of online story sites I frequent has narrowed to a tiny fraction of what I once visited. Dabeagle.com is top of the list and my first stop when looking for stories. I also enjoy the board. I too am not as good as I should be about giving my opinions. I just want want everyone to know that I love the stories and come here eagerly. John
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Post by Neal on Sept 21, 2016 2:08:42 GMT -5
I wrote three replies a little earlier tonight and while backing out of the site bumbled on to this post. I have been an avid reader/follower of your writings for a long time. For a long time I felt that I wasn't clever enough or worthy of participating in this forum, so I have been one of those majority of hits who peeked in your world and envied it. Sorry I disappointed you. I'll try harder in the future to let you know that I love your words and look forward to Sunday nights and now Wednesdays.
For those other "Guests" that peek and don't write. It is easy to "Reply". Hit reply, type in a Guest Name. Hit the "Tab" key. Tell him something honest, but constructive. Thank him for his efforts. Do the little "Captcha" thing and submit your reply.
I have replied a few times recently. I haven't registered or logged in (you don't have to to reply) and I haven't been harassed or peppered with unwanted emails. They haven't told me the secret handshake yet, or where they hold the Bacchanals so maybe I'll register just to find out.
My best to you and yours and to all the writers whose work I have silently enjoyed.
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 21, 2016 6:58:06 GMT -5
Don't misunderstand. I recognize every poster here on this thread. I'm talking to the vast majority who read and leave. I'm talking about, how as of this writing, 5 responses have been made and another 45 turned their backs and shrugged.
I pay a monthly fee to host this site. I pay fees every few years to re-register the .com, .net and .org domains. I am LITERALLY paying to be ignored.
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Post by Tom on Sept 21, 2016 9:02:06 GMT -5
I admit I am one of the people being talked about here. I have followed the various story sites for years and have enjoyed many hours of fine fiction. For many of those years, I never paid any attention to the forums/message boards. I just read the stories and moved on. On rare occasions I sent an email to an author, and I believe they all replied. As the number of quality stories has seemed to decrease, I have been checking the boards to see what has happened to certain authors. This particular board is so small and inactive that I don't look at it very often.
I apologize for not letting the authors know that I have read and enjoyed their stories. I have just always assumed that "someone else" is going to do it. I am not an author and I cannot offer constructive criticism on plots or characters or grammar or whatever. And I don't really like the boards where everybody writes in with their "me too!" replies.
So know that I have enjoyed the Sanitaria Springs stories. Like other well-written series, I hope to return in a year or three and re-read the entire saga, just like I do every few years with other favorites (Foley-Mashburn saga, Sequoyah's stories, Joel's Mystery & Mayhem, Gary's Garden, and many others).
You and the other authors are appreciated and your stories are read and enjoyed, even by those of us who are too lazy to share in return. Thanks!
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Post by Israfil on Sept 21, 2016 11:05:20 GMT -5
Tom - while "me too" replies can certainly be a little tedious to read, I wish that readers who notice this would be inclined to contribute in some small way that breaks the echo chamber.
Doesn't have to be a mini-essay on the subtleties of fiction and how they relate to the story. If you have an observation or feeling that hasn't been touched on, bring it to the discussion! There have been innumerable instances where I've seen a thread percivorate on a single aspect of a topic (stories or otherwise) at the exclusion of all others. I realize this is partly the nature of the Internet but if you see this and have another point, don't simply shake your head and move on.
I can only speak for myself but even a sentence or two can provide plenty for an author to think on when considering how a story was received and it can take a reader all of two minutes (or less). The writing process goes on long after the final draft is submitted and feedback is an integral part of it at every stage. Without it, it feels like we're just flinging words into the ether.
And that's just depressing.
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Post by paul on Sept 21, 2016 14:15:42 GMT -5
You might include a footer at the end of each story or chapter that includes an email link and also one to the forum along with a brief note about how you'd appreciate feedback, no matter how brief. At the very least, that would make it easier for people to do so.
On a related note, I think it would be good to have a link to the stories home page on each forum page, too.
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 21, 2016 18:18:30 GMT -5
You might include a footer at the end of each story or chapter that includes an email link and also one to the forum along with a brief note about how you'd appreciate feedback, no matter how brief. At the very least, that would make it easier for people to do so. On a related note, I think it would be good to have a link to the stories home page on each forum page, too. An email link is included at the top of every chapter.
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Post by Nelson on Sept 22, 2016 0:19:12 GMT -5
Here's my excuse- um, nothing of value comes to mind. I'm so sorry you're feeling used and abused by the readers. While we may deserve to be fired I hope you'll reconsider. Years ago my daughter started dating a woman and I looked around online for advice on what I should say or do. I wanted to make her understand I was comfortable with her choices as long as she was happy. I came across your writing, I have no idea now how I found it. It resonated with me, some of the best writing I have found online. Because it was of such a high quality I kept coming back. I have been trying to figure out why I've never said anything and I really can't come up with a reason except I'm a woman who is not gay and didn't believe my experience would be of value to you or your readers. When you said your book was for sale I bought it immediately on Amazon just to support your writing as I had already read it on your site. I also sent you $ last Christmas because I also believe in what you're doing with fostering. So I'll close this with the comment that I think you have a true talent and if you stop this site I hope you won't stop your writing.
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 22, 2016 8:46:01 GMT -5
Here's my excuse- um, nothing of value comes to mind. I'm so sorry you're feeling used and abused by the readers. While we may deserve to be fired I hope you'll reconsider. Years ago my daughter started dating a woman and I looked around online for advice on what I should say or do. I wanted to make her understand I was comfortable with her choices as long as she was happy. I came across your writing, I have no idea now how I found it. It resonated with me, some of the best writing I have found online. Because it was of such a high quality I kept coming back. I have been trying to figure out why I've never said anything and I really can't come up with a reason except I'm a woman who is not gay and didn't believe my experience would be of value to you or your readers. When you said your book was for sale I bought it immediately on Amazon just to support your writing as I had already read it on your site. I also sent you $ last Christmas because I also believe in what you're doing with fostering. So I'll close this with the comment that I think you have a true talent and if you stop this site I hope you won't stop your writing. That's a tremendous amount to say. Your experiences aren't less valuable because you're not gay or are female or anything else. If you like my work I'm interested to hear from you because you're human. I'm not asking for dissertations. Something that made you laugh, something you found absurd...I even appreciate when a reader gets angry over something, saying it completely went against what they wanted and expected, mostly because it means you were invested and you cared. Mentioning fostering, our foster son was just freed for adoption last Friday. We should be adopting him before Thanksgiving.
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pedro
Young Hound
Posts: 78
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Post by pedro on Sept 23, 2016 16:28:32 GMT -5
Apologies for coming late to the party.
First: I am pleased to hear the news about your foster son - another step along the road. No doubt you are expecting there to be some more setbacks on the journey but at least thing seem to be heading in the right direction still.
Second: It saddens me that you should have had come to feel the way you do about the lack acknowledgement for your stories. However I can quite understand why and sympathise, especially as you are effectively being ignored twice- once for the story itself and again for all the work you do in hosting and maintaining the site. I am as guilty as any for enjoying a good read and then failing to leave a comment. I have said before (somewhere) that I don't like leaving 'me too' messages but I find i am often at a loss to articulate why I like a particular story or chapter. Please accept that I do enjoy and appreciate your stories and hope that you will continue to write even if you do decide to close the site (hopefully the hosted stories could be moved to another site of similar ethos).
I do think that a satisfactory etiquette around the interaction between reader and author has not been established for web hosted stories. The only feedback such an author gets is through a forum such as this one or by direct email contact. There are no intermediaries offering comment that would be available to an author in the printed media, no (professional) editors, no critical reviews on the cover or elsewhere etc.. Although I have no knowledge of the actual figures I would not be surprised if the percentage of readership that contact an author about a story in print is similar to or even less than the stats you have mentioned above. As for direct feedback in respect of TV drama, I would expect the percent to be even less, the main measure of success being audience numbers. At this point the sociologists and economists might have something to say about such things as the perceived value of free goods or the incedence of volunteering (In word or deed).
I have noticed that the frequency of postings to the associated forums of other story sites I visit seems to have been in decline for sometime and in each case the cast of characters making posts is limited to an inner circle of maybe five to ten with a few very occasional additional contributors. So I doubt poor feedback is specific to this site.
It is to be hoped that webmasters like yourself will be successful in educating readers to give feedback by the admonishments to do so tagged to each story and webpage.
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Post by silentreader on Sept 26, 2016 0:27:08 GMT -5
I have not written much in a while. I guess I have been introspective.
There was a death in my extended family last month, too. The person who passed away was a very elderly distant relative who had been terribly ill and suffering for years. I wasn't weeping in terrible grief because honestly I was glad he was no longer suffering. But I do remember him as a kind person who was quietly supportive of me over the years. And I found - sort of to my surprise - that I was feeling very ill at ease for weeks after his passing.
I do love the stories here, especially the Sanitaria Springs stories. It's just that I don't have anything new to say, I guess. I've already posted about how comforting some of the stories were during a family crisis over a year ago. I would reread them and feel -comfort -stress reduction -while reading and re-reading about some of our boys and their caring relationships with each other.
I will share the embarrassing news that I skipped a couple of the Sanitaria Springs stories. I need to go back and read them out of order now. I'm embarrassed because the reason I skipped them is that I read the beginning of one and realized that Robin was in the county jail. (I can't believe I'm sharing this; I think I must sound like a demented dork!) But I read that Robin was in jail and I rebelled. I said to myself NO! I'm not going to read about Robin in jail! I remembered that i had kept on reading when Sean landed in a psych ward, and I felt a little silly, but I just couldn't bear the thought of Robin in jail. So I skipped a couple. Then I read John's story which explained why Robin was in jail and realized I could handle it, after all... and I even wrote John a nice e-mail...
I guess I haven't had anything new to say. I will think about it and come back... but, in any case, thank youfor your work and for sharing your work (and the work of theother authors, too).
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