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Post by TeddyBower on May 5, 2019 21:48:19 GMT -5
Thank you for this story, Dave. I think it is one of the most poignant attempts at addressing "pretending" I've encountered. It just sort of puts the insidiousness of good people doing nothing or ignoring issues in the hope that they don't exist in perspective. Good job.
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ivor
Young Hound
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Post by ivor on May 6, 2019 3:34:37 GMT -5
Agreed, Teddy.
It was good anyway to see Alec and Sasha again, but the manner in which the scales were removed from the young lady's eyes was very powerful. Mind you she is going to face real difficulties with her own family - can you even begin to imagine the wedding!!
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Post by Dabeagle on May 6, 2019 7:04:15 GMT -5
I'm glad you both enjoyed it! As I was writing this I came across a quote or a meme that was describing that very thing - how people can be just so nice about ignoring others, or rather their plight and existence. They don't beat us, fire guns or anything like that. They enable the attitude that it's okay for those things to happen, but of course they don't - not really. Like it's okay to pass a law that says we can be thrown off building tops, because it would never happen, that the idea is just silly. I find the idea of that fake niceness is in my mind with respect to many people of religious 'conviction' and those in the south - though that is definitely prejudice speaking, as anyone can be raised to think in such a way.
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Post by TeddyBower on May 6, 2019 17:33:45 GMT -5
The other thing I was going to say, and totally spaced doing so, is the family interplay in some places had me thoroughly entertained and chuckling. It occurred throughout the story and I found it just wonderful.
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Post by DavidAMorse1701 on May 15, 2019 21:53:16 GMT -5
I enjoyed the story. But I am rather surprise that Bobby would be interested in such a woman. He clearly knows her views on gays but he angrily defends her. I can't understand that, it's not only Alec that was mistreated and even badly hurt, almost killed in at least two cases in fact. Lucien and Griffin could have been killed if things had not been stopped. It seems unlikely their relationship can last. She may see the errors in what she learned in her family but I doubt her family will ever accept Bobby's family. That will make for a stressful marriage if it came to pass. That might be a situation you want to explore.
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Post by Dabeagle on May 15, 2019 22:10:06 GMT -5
I enjoyed the story. But I am rather surprise that Bobby would be interested in such a woman. He clearly knows her views on gays but he angrily defends her. I can't understand that, it's not only Alec that was mistreated and even badly hurt, almost killed in at least two cases in fact. Lucien and Griffin could have been killed if things had not been stopped. It seems unlikely their relationship can last. She may see the errors in what she learned in her family but I doubt her family will ever accept Bobby's family. That will make for a stressful marriage if it came to pass. That might be a situation you want to explore. Don't forget that Bobby won't know about all of those events, especially outside of Alec. I think Bobby fell in love with her before realizing the situation, and he feels she can and will be better than she's been allowed to be to this point. It's faith on someone's ability to recover or improve, if you will.
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Post by TeddyBower on May 15, 2019 23:42:52 GMT -5
I can testify to the truth of people raised in bigoted cultures being able to change. I'm not going to say it happens frequently, but I've watched some lovely transformations happen. I've no idea what Dave has in mind for this story arc but I'm okay with whatever he chooses to do with Bobby and Sandy. There are quite a few possibilities, but I, too, am a little pissed at Bobby for his less than solid stand in defense of his family. Maybe it could work out to be a learning experience for him as well. Only the Dog Father knows 😊
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Post by DavidAMorse1701 on May 15, 2019 23:43:15 GMT -5
Maybe Bobby doesn't know about all those events but I doubt he will remain unaware if he continues his relationship. The argument will undoubtedly raise at least some of those situations as almost all of those boys are part of the extended "found family" group. Lucien was there one morning and both Sasha and Alex know his story. They don't need to mention names only point out that many boy they know were also attacked. I think it's an important issue to raise. Can a relationship survive with one Inlaw family doesn't accept members of the other remain hostile to the other family? Even if the spouse does change and accept them. I doubt her family will ever accept Bobby's family. That will make for a stressful marriage if it came to pass. That might be a situation you want to explore.
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Post by DavidAMorse1701 on May 15, 2019 23:54:48 GMT -5
TeddyBower, I did say I liked the story and I want to see how it develops. I am more than a "little pissed" at Bobby's defensive reaction in favor of Sandy, and almost dismissive response toward Alex's story. Dismissive in that he feels it is not an issue. It concerns his brother, a person he grew up with and the man he married. He knows Sandy thought it was a tall tale and that it did not happen. She told her family that he at least exaggerated it.
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pedro
Young Hound
Posts: 78
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Post by pedro on May 16, 2019 4:05:02 GMT -5
TeddyBower, I did say I liked the story and I want to see how it develops. I am more than a "little pissed" at Bobby's defensive reaction in favor of Sandy, and almost dismissive response toward Alex's story. Dismissive in that he feels it is not an issue. It concerns his brother, a person he grew up with and the man he married. He knows Sandy thought it was a tall tale and that it did not happen. She told her family that he at least exaggerated it. In my reading, I don’t think Bobby was aware that Sandy had dismissed his saying he had two dads and his telling Alex’ story as a tall tales. Nor is it likely he will have ever seen Sasha in full-on ‘lioness defending her cubs’ mode before. However, having introduced Sandy to the family, Bobby should defend her when she is there, especially if he is/was in love and thinking of marrying her. He and The Family can have an argument about her when she is not there, and he and Sandy should have a separate conversation about her attitude and how it affects their relationship, but alone. Having both had the scales falling, nay: torn, from their eyes the conversation on their trip back to SC could be interesting. As for her family accepting his - he is a Yankee and therefore beyond the pale. That he chose to have two fathers and two gay brothers is merely added confirmation that he is the spawn of satan.
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Post by TeddyBower on May 16, 2019 15:21:57 GMT -5
DavidAMorse - "TeddyBower, I did say I liked the story and I want to see how it develops."
And I understood you to mean exactly what you said, but thanks for the clarification of your meaning. It never hurts to do so :-)
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Pedro - "In my reading, I don’t think Bobby was aware that Sandy had dismissed his saying he had two dads and his telling Alex’ story as a tall tales."
That was my understanding of the tale as well. I tend to disagree with you to some extent though, on how he should have reacted. For him to defend her tooth and nail, in his family home, with his fathers, brother, and family in attendance, is about as insensitive as it can get, without at least acknowledging the elephant in the room. Not to do so is the stuff from which broken relationships develop. He may love the girl, deeply, but he needed to have exercised a level of diplomacy that did not negate the truth of his and his family's history with the kind bigotry and hatred she's inadvertently revealed in their home.
That's a tall ask in the heat of the moment, and perhaps not too many of us are up to that challenge. He didn't do particularly well in that regard, and were it not for the fact that Sandy, while ignorant as fuck, also seems to possess a depth of character that might lead her to a growth of character with which she wasn't raised, his actions or non-actions risked him a lot where his family was concerned to the point where he brought her back to Sasha's home in an effort, to defend her rather than to make any substantive move toward "getting it." He's just lucky that Sandy, ignorant as she seems, might be more clued in than he is.
Well, that's at least how I perceive it. :-)
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Post by Dabeagle on May 16, 2019 15:50:05 GMT -5
Really satisfying to read all this discussion!
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Post by DavidAMorse1701 on May 17, 2019 22:44:11 GMT -5
DavidAMorse - "TeddyBower, I did say I liked the story and I want to see how it develops." And I understood you to mean exactly what you said, but thanks for the clarification of your meaning. It never hurts to do so :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pedro - "In my reading, I don’t think Bobby was aware that Sandy had dismissed his saying he had two dads and his telling Alex’ story as a tall tales." TeddyBower - "That was my understanding of the tale as well. I tend to disagree with you to some extent though, on how he should have reacted. For him to defend her tooth and nail, in his family home, with his fathers, brother, and family in attendance, is about as insensitive as it can get, without at least acknowledging the elephant in the room. Not to do so is the stuff from which broken relationships develop." I agree that it was insensitive of Bobby to defend Sandy against his family in their own home with everyone there. It was also insensitive and stupid to bring Sandy back with him the morning after. If Bobby were thinking clearly he should have gone to talking it out in private with his family. Without Sandy there Bobby may have been willing to here Sasha and Alec out instead of almost getting up and walking out again. Sandy gets credit for at least keeping Bobby there to try and listen. But I believe he still owed it to his family to go alone for while she kept him there she was also his reason for trying to walk out. If Bobby had come back in the morning alone and asked why the family was upset than he might have understood. He could have been told about Lucien and what happened to him after he was adopted, how he was almost killed because he was gay. I don't think it's a problem to share it because Lucien is Alec's younger brother and Bobby's extended family. Alec had ample reason to be angry.
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Post by DavidAMorse1701 on May 17, 2019 23:23:08 GMT -5
Really satisfying to read all this discussion! I'm very glad. I greatly enjoyed the episode and I want to see where you go from here. I've grown attached to the characters and that's why it bothers me to see how it played out. I hope it can be worked out believably so Bobby could be happy with her. But I see many roadblocks to a happily ever after. Sandy could face the choice between her family or Bobby from her parents. But that is your decision.
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Post by Dabeagle on May 18, 2019 13:59:39 GMT -5
Really satisfying to read all this discussion! I'm very glad. I greatly enjoyed the episode and I want to see where you go from here. I've grown attached to the characters and that's why it bothers me to see how it played out. I hope it can be worked out believably so Bobby could be happy with her. But I see many roadblocks to a happily ever after. Sandy could face the choice between her family or Bobby from her parents. But that is your decision. Bobby is off to South Carolina to work, for now. The story featured him heavily because it was a commissioned story and that was the focus. I don't have immediate plans to return to Bobby and Sandy, but you never know - as I'f said and more or less proved more than once!
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