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Post by Dabeagle on Aug 5, 2023 8:25:52 GMT -5
So I've always wanted to drive a Phaeton, and once I sold my bus I had a little extra money. I was thinking about some of the cars I've always wanted to drive or own that I never had the money for in the past - Scirocco, Corrado, maybe another Rabbit GTI like I once had. While I love busses, they develop issues on their own just due to the amount of time they sit. So I'm trolling though the Facebook marketplace and I spot this '04 Phaeton in Massachusetts for 3k. The lowest one listed is for 2500 and it doesn't run. I look at the pictures and think it doesn't look too bad and I message the guy. It has two major things that need addressing and a few minor ones. The guy bought it for his father in law as they were snowbirds, but then they unexpectedly sold their home in Arizona and moved back to the NE full time. They really didn't need the second car, but he'd already put some money into it. Wife didn't want it sitting at home and I think he was just kind of done with it. He said he changes cars fairly frequently, being a mechanic and just enjoying the cars. So I trek out the two and half hours it takes to get there one morning and have a look.
Now in person the Phaeton looks similar to a large Passat, but that changes once you get close and start to notice details. I admit to being a little underwhelmed, but then I knew I was looking at a 19 year old car with 180k on the clock, so I'd set my expectations accordingly. The guy runs a German auto shop and he described the work done to it, had receipts and that he'd purchased it from a customer. Timing belt was done 20k ago and it needed the flex pipes replaced (8 cylinder so two exhaust pipes, each with a flexible ares where the pipe turns toward the cat) and it had developed this little surging feeling that he said was the torque converter starting to go bad. For those unaware, the torque converter sits between the transmission and the engine and converts engine power to torque for the car to move. It was a fairly expensive repair, or at least a lot of work was my thought. I drove the car and the brakes felt soft and the car wasn't a street racer off the line by any means. He told me the brakes tend to feel that way on the big Audi's, which this car has many Audi A8 parts in it, as well as Bentley Continental and some Phaeton only parts. He dropped the price to 2500 and I got the impression he was a fellow who was just done with the car and wanted to move to the next thing. He revealed that his current vehicle was one he'd been going to trade the Phaeton in on, an Audi A7 (gorgeous car, want one) and he'd been prepared to drive it to Pennsylvania to make the deal, but a better one had come up closer to home. So with purchase price and the price of repairing the two major items, I'd get a working Phaeton for about 4500. I'd sold the bus for 5500, so I felt okay with it. I had a tingle in my gut that I should walk away, but I didn't listen. Too polite. I'd driven all that way and dragged the guy back to work on a Saturday.
So we make the deal, I pay for the car. Replacing the exhaust pipes was good timing as well since the pipes had to be removed to drop the transmission. I register the car and go back two weeks later to get the car. The night before the guy informs me he's in Florida and the keys will be in it, and that I should bring jumper cables as the battery was getting weak. So my husband goes out with me and when we get there the car is dead - no lights anywhere. Plus, good thing it had two keys, because it has an electronic key release and once it had hold of the key it wouldn't let go, because it was dead. I pop the trunk to jump the battery and...no battery. I pop the trunk (actually open it through a hidden key slot) and see on the driver's side a panel is open, a fuse/relay junction is lying on the trunk floor and there is a small battery exposed in the fender well. I attach jumped cables and we get lights, but the car won't turn over. Not even an attempt. I figure the battery is too dead to jump through. We go to the nearest auto parts store, about a mile and a half away, and this town is so close to the NH border that we actually cross state lines to get to the store. Buy a crescent wrench, battery and screw for the license plate. Get back, attach jumpers, discover the bolts for the license plate are incorrect, car still won't turn over.
I go to the VW Vortex forums and find there are two batteries. Panel on the passenger side reveals the other battery with a protective sleeve on the positive terminal that only allows for the smallest connection if you're trying to jump. Won't take the jump. There is a plate with two nuts holding the battery down and I can't get enough of a bite and leverage with the crescent wrench to remove the plate - back to the auto parts store with the battery core from the driver's side, get another battery and ratchet set. Get the nuts off, plate won't come up. So here I am, sweating (was fucking hot) yanking on the battery with both hands and swearing like a sailor. Eventually use something to pry the plate up -it had gotten moisture underneath it and it had rusted into place. Swap the battery, car starts right up - still sounds louder than it should. Spend time adjusting the mirrors and such. Go to the auto parts store to return the old battery and the fellow that's been helping me come outside because he's never seen a Phaeton before. Get gas. Get on a four lane road that has no business being as busy as it is, inching toward the highway when, about 100 feet away from the on ramp, the dashboard lights up red telling me the car is overheating. After a moment's indecision, I pull into the first available exit, the police department lot.
I try calling U Haul to see if I can get a truck and tow dolly to pull this thing home, but no dice. I call my mom and I'm so frustrated I'm practically in tears. My husband pulls up and we go to an auto parts store (different one, refused to go back to the other one) and get coolant. It takes so long to get the coolant my husband actually comes in looking for me in the store. We go back and it still feels too hot to open, so I get on the forums and hunt down the fuse panel for the radiator fans (hidden in the engine compartment, under the windshield) but they were fine. Open the coolant reservoir and it's a little low, add some coolant. Got the car back over to the garage and saw it was running at 200 degrees. I checked the forums and that's normal - but if you look at your own car, it's probably about 180 degrees.
I should mention I'd been messaging the former owner, the shop owner, though out and gotten no response. I sat there and let the temp climb to 260 before turning it off. I dropped the key through the slot and left the guy a final message about my observations and what needed to be done. About 40 minutes into the ride home he starts messaging me that the car never overheated when he had it, was I sure it was overheating? So they checked it out and this past Thursday he let me know both fans were dead and he was looking for parts. So I was right, fans weren't working, but it's going to eat up the rest of the money from selling the bus and then some. I should have listened to my gut!
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Post by Neal on Aug 5, 2023 8:44:58 GMT -5
Ouch! Dave, I've been thinking about your adventure since I read it. I have had similar breakdowns in my past. I didn't have cell phones or internet or "Auto Parts Stores" to go to back then. It occurred to me that that is probably why I have new cars under warranty now and since I could afford them. I've sat for hours on the side of a rural road waiting for somebody to drive by, walked miles to a house with a "Party Line Phone" to call for help and been towed 9 miles behind a 1950ish Farmall One Lunger tractor at 6 MPH so the farmer that towed me could cobble a repair that got me to a town with a mechanic. And you don't want to know what I did once with a 5-gallon outboard motor gas can full of two-stoke gas, duct tape and a rubber hose. My scariest adventure involved my brother-in-law slashing his foot severely while swimming at camp. I did first aid on him and got him into my car while our wives corralled the kids and went back to the camp site, we were staying at. Then it was five miles of dirt road to get to a paved road. A couple miles to find a house with a phone and very helpful people. My brother-in-law was not in severe condition or pain and the bleeding was stopped. But I was stunned when the people whose phone we used said "It's Wednesday, so THE DOCTOR is in Dover-Foxcroft." We were near Monson, ME and Dover-Foxcroft was three towns and 25 miles of narrow 2 lane road away. We got directions, confirmation that the doctor would wait for us and took off for the travelling doctors' clinic. My brother-in-law got a Tetanus shot and six stitches. It took over 4 hours to get back to camp and assure the frantic family that Paul would be fine, and we could stay at camp for the rest of the week.  Take a wild guess how many gas stations or auto parts stores there are in that area. There was a little pizza place in a house next to a general store in Monson back then. I was joking with the pizza person about needing to call the police once. She said we don't have a police department. I said call the sheriff. She said we don't have a sheriff. I asked what kind of law enforcement do you have here? She said a State Trooper drove through once a month. I said in that case this is a stick up. We all had a laugh. I didn't use to worry about emergencies back then. Now I don't leave the city limits without my cell phone, Zoleo or Garmin Inreach Satellite communicators and GPS devices. I hope I never have to lift the Red Cover and push the SOS Button but, I know I can if I have to. The old me would delight in restoring a car. The now me... not so much. The now me wishes you success in your endeavor. |
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Phaeton
Aug 13, 2023 11:29:01 GMT -5
Post by Dabeagle on Aug 13, 2023 11:29:01 GMT -5
I have found that my mind is willing, but sometimes the body is weak when it comes to following the rough with the actual labor. Stuff always happens you didn't expect; it's just part and parcel of doing nearly anything. It is funny, though, how our perspective has changed over time. If you'd had the things available to you now back then, you'd have probably changed your behavior sooner - once you'd passed the age of 15 and your brain had moved past the risk-taking portion that's so common to male youth. People used to die without some of the modern ways we have to communicate. I don't stop for people on the side of the road anymore because everyone has cell phones.
I may lift a certain finger if they have a Trump sticker on their car, though, as I go by.
The mechanic called and informed me used fans would be 400 plus 390 to install, over 1k for new fans. I've seen them for cheaper so I figure he's marking up the price on me, but I'm kind of over a barrel. Hopefully I'll have the car by the end f the week, and I ordered a replacement tail light from a wrecked car so I can fix that when I get it. I asked if they'd figured out the exhaust situation, not that I was going to ask them to fix it. He said one of the flanges FROM THE REPAIR THEY"D DONE was the culprit, just not tight enough. So they put on exhaust parts, lowered the car, had it running to move it and knew it wasn't as quiet as it should be, and did nothing. I'm certainly glad I'll (hopefully) never have to deal with his shop again; This will burn through anything left from the sale of the bus.
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Post by Neal on Aug 14, 2023 8:29:20 GMT -5
You might be right about perspective changing. Back then when we didn't know what "Mcgivering" was we did it anyway. Some of the ummm... adventures stick in my mind. Stuff I would never think of much less try today; we did as a matter of necessity. Finding stuff and "old People" that could make things work enough to drive away until you could do a proper repair was always a minor miracle. Funny thing is that when we got to where we could do a proper repair we never did because what the hell it's working now.
I also miss the old days because you could actually understand how your car worked and make repairs yourself without a degree in computer science. Vice Grips, some screwdrivers, duct tape and bailing wire and a tire iron was all you needed to get home. Oh, and a bald spare tire and empty gas can in the trunk.
My friend had a 1967 MGB. I had a 1968 Triumph TR4. We drove them from Ft Walters, TX to Savannah GA while in flight training in 1968. I went the southern route to drop a friend off in Ft Rucker, Alabama, he went the high road to see family on the way. When we met up in Savannah and swapped stories about our drives, he topped my adventure. Specifics are fuzzy now, but the gist of his story was he hit something that went under his car on a backroad somewhere along the way. One of those "old people" I mentioned earlier stopped to help him. The old farmer towed him to his farm, and they looked under the car to see what was damaged. The crankshaft fan pulley was broken and the oil pan and bottom of the radiator where dinged but not leaking. Mackey (that was his name) thought he was screwed because he was miles from any major city that could have parts or work on his MGB. They got the pulley off and couldn't fix it. Mackey said the old guy stared at the pulley for a while and then went into his barn. When he came back, he had a pulley that was very close to exactly the same thing that was broke. Mackey asked him what it was from, and the farmer told him it was off an old Model T he had in the barn. It worked! Mackey drove from someplace in western Tennessee to Savannah without further incident. To top it off the old farmer wouldn't take any money for helping him.
Mackey was on a state highway not an Interstate highway for most of his trip. My friend and I left Ft Wolters (just west of Fort Worth) on a 2 lane Texas state Highway with a Rand McNally Road map. We drove for 5 miserable slow hours until the highway turned south and crossed over a brand-new Interstate 10 that wasn't on our map. I was so pissed to find out we could have been on the interstate FOR THE LAST 50+ MILES.
Life really was simpler then. But I think I'll keep my air-conditioning and adaptive cruise control.
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Post by Dabeagle on Aug 24, 2023 18:25:36 GMT -5
The Phaeton is home. It has a litany of issues to address. I took it out to pick up my son from his girlfriend's and discovered the headlights are both out. The dash cluster lights don't work so you can see the illuminated needles move, but not the faces of the dials. The driver's window slipped out of the rack and now you have to push it down with your hand, than it started drunkenly titling on the way back up. I replaced the tail light and it still doesn't work, so I'm worried its the the wire loom going into the trunk. I had an oil change done and they couldn't get the housing off for the filter, so it'll have to go to a real mechanic. It still sounds a bit loud to me, and I'm 70% sure the transmission will have to be rebuilt at some point. The potentiometer to run the sunroof is broken. I ordered a new console for the lighting and such and they sent the wrong gone, and now aren't answering me. I went to get the headlights from a local store and they were $99 a piece. The guy told me I could buy a pair on Amazon for $40 bucks, so.... I'll have to do a video on that, too. My mechanic buddy says if I have the Phaeton, maybe it'll break me of my Quantum obsession. I do have too many cars - the thing is I'm buying all these old cars that I couldn't afford when they were new, but now they all need work.
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 6, 2023 11:43:23 GMT -5
So the brake light and trunk actuator shared a common problem - the trunk wiring loom had several breaks so I was out there with a soldering iron, replacement wires and heat shrink to repair it. Hot day. Then I moved to trying to fix the driver's window. The glass became detached from the window regulator, so I popped he door card off and was presented with a metal pan covering the interior of the door and the window regulator motor was attached to it. There are two u-shaped channels with flat bottoms that hold the window glass, and that glass has two flat spots cut into it wrapped in rubber to seat themselves in those channels. So what you had to do was pull out these two one inch diameter stoppers to see the channels, lower them so you can see the edge of the window, lube the rubber (stop snickering) with dish soap and then use a screwdriver to align the channels as you press the glass into place. I messaged my mechanic about some things I'd like him to look at for me and I thought you all would enjoy his response.
A Phaeton?!! Are you nuts?. I'm not sure if I'd even want to work on it, but I will take a look, there is a good chance that I will not want to do anything except the oil filter.
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Post by glh on Sept 10, 2023 16:29:48 GMT -5
Ouch! I watch a youtuber that has a garage in Avoca, about a hundred miles west of Binghampton, that goes by South Main Auto. He's pretty euro-negative, though I think it has more to do with inadequate/incorrect repair data available. He generally refers to them as Eurotrash. He has worked on the occasional VW and Benz, but for the most part the majority of his work concerns GM products, since they're prolific in his region. He has little good to say about GM products aside from they're what's putting his kids through college.
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Phaeton
Sept 10, 2023 19:04:39 GMT -5
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 10, 2023 19:04:39 GMT -5
Oh. Em. Gee. This car. I'll post a video walk around if people are interested, but this thing is trying my patience. Even the headlights are over engineered and bespoke! I got the wrong bulbs and had to special order them, plus the oil filter cap is so over-tightened by the 'professional' that sold it to me, it'll have to be broken to access the filter to change it. Tonight, while driving home, the dash cluster went out taking the speedometer, tachometer, water temp and voltage with it - oh and the turn signals as well. The crook who sold it to me said I had one bad TPM (tire pressure monitor) in the driver's front wheel - nope, four were completely dead and one was barely working and all were original equipment - 19 years old. I'm going to need a second job to afford this car!
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Phaeton
Sept 13, 2023 18:34:50 GMT -5
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 13, 2023 18:34:50 GMT -5
So I dropped my mom off and out of th e blue the information screen in the middle of the dash went off, taking with it the speedometer, tachometer, voltage gauge, and water temperature gauge leaving just the gas and oil temp gauges. Plus the power steering and turn signals went with it.
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Phaeton
Sept 16, 2023 8:55:44 GMT -5
Post by glh on Sept 16, 2023 8:55:44 GMT -5
It sounds like you need a OBD II bi-directional scanner to carry with you for incidents such as this. When one of the TPMS sensors went out on my Highlander the dealer wanted $235 PER SENSOR for replacement. Being the stubborn, miserly a$$ that I am I bought four OEM sensors from Rock Auto and a XTOOL D7 scan tool from Amazon for about half what they wanted for four sensors installed. I intended to change them all myself, but I wound up needing tires before I got it done. The tire vendor was kind enough to change them out for me and I used the scan tool to reprogram the TPMS module.
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Phaeton
Sept 17, 2023 12:56:14 GMT -5
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 17, 2023 12:56:14 GMT -5
Over on the VW VORTEX forums there is a Phaeton thread that has been very helpful in diagnosing and fixing things so far. They universally recommend the VCDS system which seems to be geared toward VW/Audi and goes far deeper than a typical OBD scanner. As I mentioned somewhere, as I've grown older and some of the kids have moved onto new things besides living at home, I have begun collecting a couple of he cars I 'always wanted'. The Quantum, of course, was my cheapest at just $500, even though the rue cost is shrouded in small parts I've bought since. Last year while I was looking for something to tinker with over the winter my mom got involved and wanted me to have something fun just for me, and I ended up with a 2001 Audi TT, which I jokingly tell people is my mid-life crisis car. After selling the bus I bought this Phaeton with the proceeds, but it seems like everything is expensive on a Phaeton. The VCDS is sold in three levels - professional, so for a garage, then two enthusiast levels that are limited by the number of VINs it can support - three or ten. It works for anything 1995 and newer, with very few exceptions, so I can use it for the Phaeton, Atlas and TT - but I can also use it on my mom's Passat and my son's Jetta. So I'll get the $300 ten VIN version, and then it should be able to talk to the Phaeton to see what it thinks is going on. In the near term I need to get the Quantum running again (either a bad relay or the fuel pump quit) so I can change the oil and the trans fluid and filter, then it can go to my buddy's house to start the rust work. That opens the garage to get the Phaeton in to diagnose before it gets too cold at the TT takes up winter residence in the garage.
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Phaeton
Sept 25, 2023 11:49:59 GMT -5
Post by glh on Sept 25, 2023 11:49:59 GMT -5
My F150 sounds quite a lot like what you've been experiencing with your Phaeton. I finally just consoled myself to the fact that I was the victim of an unscrupulous car flipper and I'll be doing a mechanical restoration at some point in the future. I suppose 'restomod' will be more accurate since I intend on making improvements/upgrades to a few things in the process.
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Phaeton
Sept 27, 2023 16:35:26 GMT -5
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Post by Dabeagle on Sept 27, 2023 16:35:26 GMT -5
Ran into the owner of a local specialty German car repair place I'd called to see f they'd work on my Phaeton. He crossed his arms, smiled and said, "You got a good deal on it, didn't you?" In the end the answer was no, he doesn't want to work on it. Says they only made about 2500 and parts are super expensive. I'm going with used parts where possible,m I think his was a high end shop where they only do new stuff...we'll see. Once the Q is out of the way, the Phaeton comes in and I'll plug into see what it thinks is going on.
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Post by Dabeagle on Oct 16, 2023 12:46:12 GMT -5
So a few things, but int he end not much change. I got the diagnostic tool, but I forced myself to finish what needed doing on the Q before I'd bring the Phaeton in the garage. Its symptoms are maddening. I followed advice from the forums on VWVortex (Phaeton only, here's the link for anyone bored) as well as the forums for the diagnostic tool. I took an initial reading of the car and there were several control modules not reporting in, which is concerning to start with. When I reset the CAN (Controller Area Network) gateway as it forces the system to check in with all the installed modules. Still had many not reporting, but interestingly some people are pointing to the battery on the driver's side as a potential culprit. They say it's really important to get the exact kind of battery, maybe not relying on the default choice from the local parts store. Problem is that the batter was nearly $250 and getting what they are listing as appropriate would be about the same. I'm going to test the battery first, and then see if the auto parts store will do anything for me to swap the battery out. Can't afford to toss away the bucks. If anyone is interested I'll do a video walk around of the car at some point. |
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Post by Dabeagle on Nov 27, 2023 9:41:43 GMT -5
Minor update - the auto parts store damaged out the old batteries and I have AMGs in the car now. They made no real difference. The next step is to send the cluster to the UK for refurbishing. My thought process is that the cluster failure is also causing the steering wheel failure, but no one in the US does this kind of work to that cluster. I do have a 'spare' cluster, but unfortunately installing it would have to be done at the dealer due to the security system and that swapping a cluster that doesn't belong in it would likely trigger the immobilizer.
Phaeton. German for pain.
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