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Post by PaulR5 on Jun 4, 2015 1:10:04 GMT -5
Clarification and definitions:
This is not always about the most villainous characters. It can be annoying characters, villains, or just characters one does not like.
In Sanitaria Springs, my least favorite is Billy Carlisle.
In The Tourist, it was William/Billy Vernon. In Strays, it was Billy Carlisle again, but then you start to see how he changed.
In Broken Hearted, it's Kale-- because Kale has not yet accepted himself until the end of the story.
In Hamster, it is chase's parents, George and Carol Dudley.
In Asher, the most unlikable characters are Edward and David Mullins and Asher's father.
In Devyn's Song, the least likable is Ms. Carter, while in Linc it is definitely Carol Dudley who is least likable.
In Bunny, Royce is the villain & least likable. In The Peril's of Lucien 1 & 2, it has to be Lucien's bio-mom.
I am sure nearly everyone would have a least favorite character or two. In some stories, however, I didn't really find a least likable.
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Post by Lugnutz on Jun 4, 2015 4:12:57 GMT -5
Someday, Phil will find out what kind of trouble his mouth will get him into.
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Post by Dabeagle on Jun 4, 2015 10:42:36 GMT -5
Interestingly, Paul, I too took a long time to warm up to Kale. Of course, unless it's intentional, no author likes to think of their children as unlikeable, and sometimes we know the path they will take or we justify it because we know their heart. Our job, as writers, is to show you that path or heart so you can love them as much as we do - and I think everyone likes Kale and all his growth.
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Post by PaulR5 on Jun 4, 2015 11:35:49 GMT -5
Interestingly, Paul, I too took a long time to warm up to Kale. Of course, unless it's intentional, no author likes to think of their children as unlikeable, and sometimes we know the path they will take or we justify it because we know their heart. Our job, as writers, is to show you that path or heart so you can love them as much as we do - and I think everyone likes Kale and all his growth. I love Kale, and I liked him in the first story he appeared in, as well. But in "Broken Hearted" he was more unlikeable than any other character because he had not yet come to terms with himself. As his maturity level grew, he became more and more OBVIOUSLY likeable. Once he accepted himself, and continued to grow, he is now one of my favorite characters. |
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Post by Dabeagle on Jun 4, 2015 13:11:57 GMT -5
Paul, I couldn't agree more.
I recall an early conversation with Ryan, before our first big argument. He asked me to look at Broken Hearted for feedback and to make sure it fit well, in terms of how I saw my characters and the town in general. I always try to be polite in my critiques, but honest and always preface things with the statement that they are my opinion and, wherever possible, point out that some things are subjective. Like, a character who smokes or has tattoos won't be near the top of my 'attractive' meter.
So I expressed my reservations about Kale, which Ryan responded 'yeah, but he a scared kid'. I agreed, to a point, but pointed out other things that I 'took issue' with about his personality. As Ryan and I batted his original manuscript around back in November of last year, we had a very heavy discussion about Kale. Now, I've alluded to Ryan and I arguing before, but this was more of a discussion - more collegial. Two writers who were looking to put the best story in the field we could. My respect for Ryan's writing and talent stemmed most from a single line he sent me in email, which I quote here:
Hmmm, you didn't like Kale and I can see why to a point but do you think that kills the story? I mean who is going to want to read 40 pages of this if the man character is an asshole?
As a writer we have to be prepared to look into the points our beta readers, our readers and our editors make in order to tell a good story. I don't think anyone, even professionals, don't get and accept input on a work in progress. My first big signal that Ryan and I would be able to work together past his first story, was that line. If you've never written, if you've never created and loved what you made, it's hard to accept criticism about what you've made. To be able to confront that criticism and make necessary adjustments to achieve your goal, and the characters goal, is a major factor in progressing with your art.
I wanted to add this in, publicly, because I don't cut Ryan any slack when he shows me manuscripts. I don't give him the old speech about, 'now don't take this personally', I just give him both barrels. Then we can have very intense discussions about scenes or characters, etc. Overall, I think it's positive - though, occasionally, one doesn't really want to speak to the other for a little while. After all, these are the children of our imagination and we do love them, even the bad ones. The reason the Royce's and the Billy's of the story mean something to you is because we know people like this - they show up in our news, sometimes we actually have had a brush with someone like this. But we also, far more, love the Alec's, The Kale's and all the others who populate this universe.
I would like to add in that before Broken Hearted was originally released, before it was even completed, I was lobbying for Robin. The final version of BH arrived in my inbox on 11/14 at 7:12pm. Six minutes later, I had a follow up email asking just what I liked about Robin so much that Ryan should consider a story on him. Some characters grab us from the moment they hit the page, and others pass by and are rarely thought of.
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Post by ryanbartlett on Jun 4, 2015 19:02:48 GMT -5
The funny thing is I never planned anything beyond Broken Hearted, then Dave started bugging me about Robin. Didn't plan anything beyond The Preacher's Kid either and well, now look where we are.
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Post by PaulR5 on Jun 4, 2015 22:16:12 GMT -5
Well, Ryan, what else can we help you not plan, since these turned out so good?
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Post by Cynus on Jun 5, 2015 1:12:30 GMT -5
As much as I love Ryan's characters in Sanitaria Springs, I'd rather see him finish some of his non-SS projects that I've been itching to read. He has a lot going on right now and keeps asking me for input and all I want is for him to complete them! That's right, Ryan. I'm calling you out publicly.  As for least favorite characters, I can see why those people made it on your list. I despise Devyn's uncles as well, and hated his dad for awhile, though if Strays is any indication of my viewpoint, I believe that no one is beyond redemption, and I'm glad to see that Devyn's dad has improved. I used to have an issue with Kale like other people did, and for much the same reasons. He always seemed to have an issue accepting change, but he has improved dramatically and it's been a great journey. Some of the best characters are the most flawed, however, and I'm grateful to Ryan and the masterful way he was able to take flawed and insecure Kale and turn him into the confident young man he's become. |
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Post by jamessavik on Jun 5, 2015 22:46:54 GMT -5
I wanted to beat up Royce and the Mullens brothers.
Their actions were things that really get on my nerves.
I hate pricks like Royce that have a really sweet partner and abuse them.
That rape and video posting thing the Mullens did to Asher- if I had been around, no one would have ever found the bodies.
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Post by Cynus on Jun 5, 2015 23:42:12 GMT -5
I wanted to beat up Royce and the Mullens brothers. Their actions were things that really get on my nerves. I hate pricks like Royce that have a really sweet partner and abuse them. That rape and video posting thing the Mullens did to Asher- if I had been around, no one would have ever found the bodies. James, can I just say that I love the way you say things like that with your half-smiling picture to the side. It's positively beautiful. |
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Post by ryanbartlett on Jun 6, 2015 0:04:06 GMT -5
As much as I love Ryan's characters in Sanitaria Springs, I'd rather see him finish some of his non-SS projects that I've been itching to read. He has a lot going on right now and keeps asking me for input and all I want is for him to complete them! That's right, Ryan. I'm calling you out publicly. As for least favorite characters, I can see why those people made it on your list. I despise Devyn's uncles as well, and hated his dad for awhile, though if Strays is any indication of my viewpoint, I believe that no one is beyond redemption, and I'm glad to see that Devyn's dad has improved. I used to have an issue with Kale like other people did, and for much the same reasons. He always seemed to have an issue accepting change, but he has improved dramatically and it's been a great journey. Some of the best characters are the most flawed, however, and I'm grateful to Ryan and the masterful way he was able to take flawed and insecure Kale and turn him into the confident young man he's become. I'll finish them when I'm damn good and ready LOL. Thanks though, I'm glad you've enjoyed Kale's journey. There's a lot of me in that boy and I hope I've grown as much as he has. |
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Post by Lugnutz on Jun 6, 2015 0:25:02 GMT -5
I wanted to beat up Royce and the Mullens brothers. Their actions were things that really get on my nerves. I hate pricks like Royce that have a really sweet partner and abuse them. That rape and video posting thing the Mullens did to Asher- if I had been around, no one would have ever found the bodies. I'll help. I think Kale was very uptight, more than he is now, and that got in the way of living. He needs to think everything thru to death. |
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